Curse

Neo-LD · Apr 19, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

And this is coming from the same guys that were criticizing me for wanting to implement huge, sweeping changes that would be too complex for Anet to handle. >.<

The Ernada · Apr 19, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

And this is coming from the same guys that were criticizing me for wanting to implement huge, sweeping changes that would be too complex for Anet to handle. >.<

Haha. It just goes to show you that some people dont really care about balance, they just want their favourite class to kick ass and look cool at the same time.

Patccmoi · Apr 19, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

And this is coming from the same guys that were criticizing me for wanting to implement huge, sweeping changes that would be too complex for Anet to handle. >.<

And how complex is it to implement a Deadly Arts weapon exactly?

Draw the skin. That's about it. Wands/staves (say they're 2 handed) are already there. The only thing that would change is the skin/shooting animation (and if they take say throwing daggers, they already have the shooting dagger animation, and the Assassin holding dagger animation... so basically they have nothing to do). But instead of following a staff weapon setup (if you meet req you deal the stated damage vs level 20s) you give it a normal weapon setup (so that you have a crit rate increasing with deadly arts attribute). Nobody asked for weapon specific skills (I'm not anyway).

Something like changing the whole combo system IS major because it requires TONS of rebalancing which leads to tons of time. Just adding a new weapon in Deadly Arts line is actually nothing much at all cause there isn't really much rebalancing to be done. All it does is that sins will now have 1 weapon that they can use from range to get energy from through Crit Strikes. I'd even be fine if the damage/refire was exactly the same as a staff which you can hardly argue would cause balancing issues (after all, sins CAN use a staff, but a staff doesn't have a scaling crit rate), and i'd even make it half cast range on top (i think it'd be good anyway so this way you'd be in range of your sin skills).

This is actually very little to do on their side and i think it could give a whole new dynamic to sins. Throw daggers between combos from a small range (i think half range is better for balance issue) while using hexes/thrown dagger skills, then you can switch to melee dagger and Dash/Shadowstep in there and combo. They'd be much more viable stand characters this way and it'd open their play style option a lot. Mainly, with a small buff to Deadly/Shadow Arts utility, it'd help the caster side of sins a LOT.

Zuranthium · Apr 19, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

You can throw two shurkiens with one hand and just grab them off your belt. However, I suppose it makes sense that the Assassin is holding a STACK of shurikens in their other hand. So in that case make them two-handed with all the normal non-caster weapon mods available, but attach a +10 energy bonus and 10% fast-cast and half-recharge to them as well. A totally unique weapon! Also the shittiest DPS for any non-wand/staff weapon, but that's alright. They shouldn't be doing too much damage.

-----

EDIT: .....I echo what Pat said. It's not nearly in the same league as trying to totally RE-CREATE the entire Assassin class.

~Z

The Ernada · Apr 19, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Well I'm not sure if giving a weapon doing any damage more than a wand does to Deadly Arts would be balanced or not considering the skills in Deadly Arts are not linked to a weapon (i.e. you need a sword to use sword skills)

There isnt any weapon line skill (wands don't count as weapon lines) where you can use the skills without the weapon itself. What Zuranthium is asking for (double strike for a one handed weapon? Slightly better damage than a wand?) is too much. Keep it exactly like wands and staves but just change the skin, afterall the whole point was to take advantage of critical hits to get energy.

Zuranthium · Apr 20, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Well I'm not sure if giving a weapon doing any damage more than a wand does to Deadly Arts would be balanced or not considering the skills in Deadly Arts are not linked to a weapon (i.e. you need a sword to use sword skills)

There isnt any weapon line skill (wands don't count as weapon lines) where you can use the skills without the weapon itself. What Zuranthium is asking for (double strike for a one handed weapon? Slightly better damage than a wand?) is too much. Keep it exactly like wands and staves but just change the skin, afterall the whole point was to take advantage of critical hits to get energy.

I did think about that.

And it's fine that the damage is better than a wand because, remember, they have half-range. The initial damage spec I posted was not sufficiently thought about, though. At first I thought they should attack a bit slower than Daggers (Spear speed) otherwise the Deadly Arts Assassin would be getting too much energy from Crit Strikes. But then I remembered that a Deadly Arts Assassin wouldn't have his crit strikes up to the level where he's gaining 3 energy per crit, only 2. Maybe even just 1, really, depending on the build. Also consider that this character really would not be attacking very much; only when he's not casting or kiting. With that in mind, I think the Shuriken weapon should actually have the fastest attack speed in the game....1.2 seconds plus the double-striking chance? Damage range would be really low, like 5-15. I can't forsee that being a problem. I truly doubt people would be putting Conjure Element or Rit Weapon spells on a Shuriken user. Or maybe they would and we would have some new things to talk about in the "What's the worse build you've ever seen" thread.

~Z

Neo-LD · Apr 20, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

@ Patccmoi

The way it was worded, it seemed to me that you and Zuranthium were asking for an entirely new weapon to be added to the game. Such a weapon, while requiring balance itself, would need an entire skill-line of entirely new skills, all of which would need balancing as well. Then there was a suggestion for a smoke-ball off-hand, which practically doubles those issues. Knowing Anet, that seems like alot more work than you are admitting.

LightningHell · Apr 20, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I don't know, adding yet another weapon into the Assassin class with the Daggers already being troublesome seems to be counterproductive to me...that way, you're still stuck with the Dagger problem, and you now have an extra weapon to deal with.

Patccmoi · Apr 20, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

@ Patccmoi

The way it was worded, it seemed to me that you and Zuranthium were asking for an entirely new weapon to be added to the game. Such a weapon, while requiring balance itself, would need an entire skill-line of entirely new skills, all of which would need balancing as well. Then there was a suggestion for a smoke-ball off-hand, which practically doubles those issues. Knowing Anet, that seems like alot more work than you are admitting.

I'm not Zuranthium though. I know he asked for Smoke Ball, weapon with faster attack speed and double strike properties, but i didn't. The ONLY thing i asked for is a weapon linked to Deadly Arts that is basically a staff (ofc it'd be like shurikens or throwing daggers, but that's just a skin to have flavor). I'd put it with a critical chance scaling with the attributes in order to make use of Critical Strikes (because there IS no damn emanagement in Deadly Arts) but to compensate i'd put it half range (which fits more with sins anyway). That's the only thing i ask, and i don't see at all why this would raise much balancing issue. Assassins can already use staves, they just don't really crit much and mostly they're not in Deadly Arts or Shadow Arts.

And note that i said that OR solid emanagement that doesn't require you hitting because that's the main problem with caster sins. Say you want to use Deadly Paradox then you can't use BLS or the like very well and your energy is attrocious. That Deadly Arts weapon idea was just cause i was considering that this would allow sins to make good use of Crit Strikes even when playing with their caster line and would make them more useful between combos because they could do some DPS (though small, it's basically a wand that crits) from range.

Zuranthium · Apr 20, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

@ Patccmoi

The way it was worded, it seemed to me that you and Zuranthium were asking for an entirely new weapon to be added to the game. Such a weapon, while requiring balance itself, would need an entire skill-line of entirely new skills, all of which would need balancing as well. Then there was a suggestion for a smoke-ball off-hand, which practically doubles those issues. Knowing Anet, that seems like alot more work than you are admitting.

No smoke-ball offhand. That idea is gone.

Ummm, entirely new skills? No. The Shurikens would have no weapon skills. The weapon would simply be linked to Deadly Arts and used for a bit of e-management.

~Z

Shmanka · Apr 23, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I have to agree the most skill assasins have are the people who create the builds, beyond that it IS button mashing, aka street fighter (darn good game though). I also agree that it doesn't truly profit skill, although a good amount of skill would realize how to stop it.